Western Soda's Strong on Ebay

Ebay the last week or so has had listed and sold at auction some very desirable western soda bottles. Yep, were talking soda bottles on the bitters site - but if you look under the Western Bitters News banner it reads; "Dedicated to the advancement of the antique bottle collecting hobby" and anything associated with our hobby is fair game in my book.
A Golden Gate soda in “deep rich emerald green’ without any described problems reached $166 when the hammer fell.
C&K Eagle Soda Works in a cobalt blue color fetched $113 when all was said and done.
A brilliant lime green Owen Casey that was just listed already has three bids and is sitting at $395 with over nine days of auction left.
The green three cities Chase soda with an iron pontil has 11 bids with over eight days of auction left and has already reached the $600 mark.

Seems like the western soda’s are on fire right now and the prices they are realizing tend to confirm that assumption.

On the western medicine scene a Pratt’s Abolition Oil with the backwards S has climbed to $37.
The western Dr. J.J. McBride’s King of Pain and the Dr. Perry’s Last Chance Liniment, both started at a steep $199, are languishing as “Buy it Now” items.

If you are looking for western soda’s or meds at auction...... bargains are few and far between at the present time.

Botanic Stomach Bitters

John Bach, Hermann Meese and Rudolf Luedke, in August of 1874, formed a partnership called the United Anaheim Wine Growers. Bach and Meese were located in San Francisco and Luedke, residing in Anaheim, could possibly have been the partner that supplied the wine products for the emerging liquor firm.

By February of 1877 the United Anaheim Wine Growers filed a notice of dissolution in the Daily Alta California and partners John Bach and Hermann Meese assumed all assets and liabilities.

A year later the wholesale liquor firm of Bach Meese and Company is advertising that they are the Sole Agents for C.Conrad’s original Budweiser Beer. (Now you know where those original Budweiser’s you have been digging came from).

In all the searching I have done on Bach Meese I can’t seem to find any advertisements for the Botanic Stomach Bitters or any mention of the Bach Meese Company from about 1878 until 1898 when Hermann Meese retires from the firm and Frank Eckenroth becomes the junior partner to John Bach.

In January of 1902 Frank Eckenroth commits suicide by asphyxiating himself with illuminating gas at his home on Mason Street in San Francisco. It appears that Eckenroth was accused of “cooking the company books” to pay gambling and horseracing debts. A few weeks later Bach Meese and Company file a petition of insolvency in the United States District Court.

It is believed the Botanic Stomach Bitters was manufactured from 1885 up until sometime in 1889 but I have absolutely zero proof of that belief. The Botanic comes in two variants; BOTANIC STOMACH BITTERS with BACH MEESE & Co. embossed on the reverse of the bottle and a supposed later example with BOTANIC STOMACH BITTERS embossed on two sides of the bottle. The Botanic's have a tool top and usually do not dispaly any crudeness. The variant with Bach Meese embossed on the reverse of the bottle is considered scarce but I can count on one hand the examples I have seen.

Although the Botanic bottle is a later made western bitters it is still a desirable and fairy tough bottle to add to your western square collection. Seen one lately?

2010 National Show

If your thinking of attending the 2010 National Show it's not to early to start making plans and reservations. For more information log on to: www.fohbc.com

A Few More Chico Pictures

Everett L. at his sales table


Sales tables with Bob Kaiser and Steve Bava


A recent find by Sacramento's own OldCutters

John Ronald and Gary Antone

A very unique grouping of 3 different brands of products made in a similar mould style. Left
is a Catawba Wine Bitters, center is a Charles London Cordial Gin, and right is a Jockey Club London Gin.

Gary Engle and show chairman Randy Taylor

Pacific Glass Works...

Hopefully I will not get "booted" from the Western bitters site, but I know Warren has been doing massive research on the Western glass houses. This was a pick up from the Chico show, and is the only example I have seen in a long time. Also, since the "star" motif has been a topic of discussion here in the recent past, this bottle crosses over into a couple of areas of recent interest on this blog. This example has the star embossed on the shoulder, but does not have the embossing on the base. it is 11 1/2" tall. I understand they come in two sizes? I am curious as to when they were made, and how many exist. It appears to be a late 1860s jar, but has anyone pinned it down? What a beautiful piece of glass this is. Warren, any ideas? Hey...there have been sodas, gins, and meds featured, so hopefully a pickle does not ruffle too many feathers.

Pacific Glass Works first advertised pickles as one of their products on June 23 rd, 1863. The first time they advertised different size pickles came on June 3rd, 1864, having a 1/2 gal. size & quarter gal. size.

On November 17th, 1870, Pacific Glass Works advertises pickle bottles in 1/2 gallon large, 1/2 gallon small and quarts.

Chico Show Pictures

Just wanted to share a few pictures from the annual Bidwell Bottle Club show in Chico. Enjoy!

A nice array of the many different known variants of the Dickey's Pioneer Chemists bottles.

Randy Salmon behind a table of goodies.

A terrific example of the Jacob Denzler quart beer bottle was also brought for show and tell at the Chico show. Three bears a dancin', of course after tasting this concoction.



Barrel bitters bargaining was happening between Ken Edward and Ron Brock while Mike Henness looked on.

A chocolate colored example of the seldom seen Dr. Miller's Ratafia Damiana bottle was recently acquired and displayed briefly for some of the advanced western bottle collectors.

Dale and Dennis hanging out at their table with some bottles for sale. Dale was also accepting consignments for the Oregon Trail Bottles website.

A nice example of the J. Moore, E. Chielovich Sole Agent whiskey was also acquired at the Chico show.

Don Dwyer and his son Donovan. Don put on the extensive display of bottles from Butte county, including Oroville & Chico. The display covered 3 tables! By the way, one of Don's particular interests is Western Bitters!

Chico Action

The Chico show was incredible this year! I have always looked forward to it as it falls right in "digging season" and frequently, there is an abundance of freshly dug glass, along with some other surprises. Western bitters were very well represented this year with some top examples trading hands, or at least being shown around. There was a beautiful large Rosenbaums in light yellow olive with strong whittle effect. It found a new home with an advanced Western bitters collector from California who was in the right place at the right time. There was also a beautiful yellow green small size Rosenbaums which was shown, but not available for purchase. This collector was able to finally land a mint, and very crude Dr. Miller's Ratafia which will be posted soon. There was a pretty yellow green Renz's Herb Bitters, which I am not aware if it sold , and a goegeous mint A.T. & Co. iin a light yellow olive. These are tough to find in mint condition. A highlight for many was the early San Francisco beer which was on display, but not available for purchase( hence "bottle show"). It was a Jacob Denzler in about mint condition! While not a bitters, it caused quite a stir. Hopefully some photos will be posted of this incredible piece of glass! I did see a few Peruvian Bitters, some nice IXLs including one in a deep turquoise which sold immediately. All in all, it was a great show, with some nice bitters, and some whiskies walking in which were to die for(these will be discussed on the whiskey blog). There is still prime digging time left in the season, so who knows what will show up next!

FOHBC Virtual Museum of American Historical Bottles and Glass

The concept presentation to the FOHBC Board for the FOHBC Virtual Museum occurred prior to the 2010 Baltimore Antique Bottle Show. The presentation was developed by Ferdinand and Elizabeth Meyer. The concept was approved for Design Development. Work sessions and administrative teams are being assembled for the various galleries, exhibitions and other museum areas such as membership, foundation, advertising, gift shop, research, archives etc. Please contact me if you would like a copy of the full presentation. All bottle collecting community comments and assistance for this historic and broad endeavor are welcomed. A still image from the presentation is pictured.

A February 2010 Dig

Nothing heavy....just some fun finds from digging the outhouse for an old M.E. Church. Below is a Mason jar with more olive-amber colored swirls than a bag of candy-canes. Also pictured is a pretty tough Hutch soda from a neat little Southern California town.

A little bit of everything seemed to come out of the hole: bottles of all types, shapes, and colors; not to mention the huge abalone shells, porcelain dolls, and other trinkets.

This church was a drinkin,' as evidenced by the numerous beer, ale, champagne, wine, and liquor bottles we found in the double-seater privy hole.

Hostetter's Closes on Ebay

Not much to report on the auction scene. Western bitters just seem to be getting harder to find. I was surprised to see a listing on ebay for an early large size Hostetter's up for bid. The bitters listings on ebay lately have been pitiful so this listing caught my attention.

Listed as;

1857 DR J.HOSTETTER'S STOMACH BITTERS -olive square-
and just loaded with seed bubbles this 31 oz. dark olive square finished at a half a grand. It takes a pretty early and crude Hostetter's to get this old collectors interest up and this particular "Hoss" did just that. This bottle had a lot going for it and, in my opinion, went for a fair price.

Congratulations to the lucky winner!

What's Been Coming Out of the Ground?

I was talking to a fellow digger and collector the other day and during the conversation he mentioned "not to much coming out of the ground anymore". Har!... (as Oldcutters would say) that got me to thinking. Here's a few photo's of just a small amount of what has been dug here in the west since the first of the year. Heck this doesn't represent anywhere near what I have heard of, let alone the "secret" or "close to the vest" bottles that have been dug. Enjoy the pics!

The Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors

The Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors is a non-profit organization for collectors of historical bottles and related collectible items. The primary goal of the federation is educational as it relates to the history and manufacture of historical bottles and related artifacts.

Membership is open to any individual, club, group, or organization that has an interest in bottles, flasks, jars, or related items.

Some of the Benefits of Membership in the Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors (FOHBC):
 A full year subscription to the bi-monthly (6 issues a year) 72-page publication, Bottles and Extras, which is continuously full of specialty articles, regular columns, classified advertising, show reports and a listing of bottle shows nationwide.
 Free advertising of "For Sale" items in Bottles and Extras (Restrictions apply - ads may be up to 100 words, items must be of $25.00 or greater value, and free advertisements are limited to the first 100 received, based upon date mailed.)
 One free ad of 60 words each year for use for items "Wanted", trade offers, etc.
 Advice on publishing your book / manuscript, and a forum for your articles.
 The opportunity to obtain discount to be used on "Early Admission" or table rent at the annual Federation shows.
 Access to the informational FOHBC Slide Show Presentations.

As a western bottle collector and member of the federation I highly recommend supporting the efforts of this worthwhile organization.

For more information on the federation take a look at their site http://www.fohbc.com/

Western Bottles.....

They don't have to be pricey to be pretty!

Bottle Folks

Support your local bottle digger, collector and dealer..........

The Western Bitters News Does!

Online Auctions vs Bottle Shows

While browsing an online auction site I noticed this dealer’s description of how he conducts business:

Any questions please ask. These items will be relisted until sold, they are already below what I have paid for them so please do not try to insult me with Dollar Store or FLEA Market Tactics. If you really want it then BID and do not ask me to ship for free. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE DESCRIPTION I will try to answer all questions and answers as soon as possible. The best time for me is early AM and late PM, this is not a full time job for me If you are interested in large quantities or my entire inventory please ask. I do not have a list. You can email me and make arrangements to see what I have (bring lots of money, big truck and trailer, man power to inventory and load. NO COMPANY AND PERSONAL CHECKS) I state MONEY ORDER ONLY and that means MONEY ORDER ONLY. I do not offer second chance offers, so please do not respond to them. Shipping and handling will be USPS Priority mail it seems there are allot of scammers out there who want to waste time and bidding on an item and refusing to pay shipping GET A LIFE or GET A JOB or GET YOUR OWN ACCOUNT AND SHIP FOR FREE, cause I will not. Honest people will be happy to pay for shipping to ensure they get what they pay for. If you want it insured then ask before you pay, this also includes signature required, otherwise all shipments will be USPS Priority with delivery confirmation. If you purchase more than one item, I will try to combine the S&H and this must be done prior to payment so please email first. I will not ship overseas. Hawaii and Alaska please check shipping costs before bidding and email me prior to bidding (This also includes Puerto Rico and Guam, I never shipped to these areas and do not want to lose money doing it, Thanx for understanding). I only ship on Saturdays, so please be patient. A handling charge is included, this covers packing materials, bubble wrap, tape and labor for my shipper, etc.( Shipper ships items, picks up supplies, travels and stands in line and also packages items again just to explain to those who keep asking, Thanx. If you do not agree to this and would like to list and ship items for me for free then I will wave this otherwise if you bid on this item and know how to read English then I expect you to pay the shipping that is quoted. Returns: I must be notified first, the item must be in the original package and I will return the cost of the item only. Shipping & Handling will not be reimbursed. Or I can exchange for another item. If this item states AS-IS NO REFUND, then it means just that. I will only accept returns that are due to my fault not your understanding of the product, that is why I state ask questions and read the ENTIRE description BEFORE YOU BID. I will only ship to the address listed so if you are using some else’s account , not my problem. These are my items for sale and these are my terms, if you do not agree, DO NOT BID. If I do not receive payment within 10 days then I will send a NON PAYING BIDDER NOTICE and 20 days I will post NEGATIVE FEEDBACK whether you pay late or not pay. NO LAY AWAY, NO GAMES, NO TRADES.

All this for an item starting at $2 with no reserve.....His feedback shows 35 negative transactions (go figure) I can’t wait to buy something from this guy and see how it turns out....... NOT!

Think I'll meander up to the Chico Show on Friday March 12th and do some face to face bottle dealing!
rs

How rare is it?

After reading a comment made on the Wonser's posting, I thought I would examine the topic of rarity ratings. I decided to go back and post ratings that have been used in two well received published bitters bottle books that were published almost 30 years apart. Here are the ratings for the year 1969.

Extremely rare 1 - 10

Very rare 11 - 30

Rare 31 - 60

Very Scarce 61 - 100

Scarce 101 - 150

Common over - 150

Next are the ratings for the year 1998.

Extremely rare 1 - 5

Very rare 6 - 15

Rare 16 - 35

Very Scarce 36 - 75

Scarce 76 - 150

Common more than 150

It has now been an additional 12 years since the last publication for ratings.

How have our bottles stood the test of time?

Alex Von Humboldts Stomach Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating V R currently with 13 known it now would be considered very rare by both book ratings.

Dr. Boerhaave's Stomach Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating E R, currently with 11 known it now would be considered very rare by both book ratings.

California Wine Bitters M. Keller Los Angeles 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating V R, I believe the number in existance now would be considered very rare by both book ratings.

Cassin's Grape Brandy Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating V R, currently with 1 known (un-repaired) it now would be considered extemely rare by both book ratings. However counting the other 6 repaired examples puts it back to the original ratings.

Cassin,s Grape Brandy Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating V R, currently with 19 known it would now be considered very rare and rare by both book ratings. However counting another 4 damaged examples doesn't change the ratings.

Chalmer's Catawba Wine Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating V R, currenly I know of 9 examples, this would make the book ratings still correct respectively.

Lacour's Bitters Sarsapariphere 1969 rating S, 1998 rating R, currently there are 23 V1, 11 V2 & 39 V3. So variant 1 bottles would be considered very rare under the 1969 ratings. Variant 2 bottles would be considered very rare by both book ratings. Variant 3 bottles would be considered very scarce under the 1998 ratings.

G. A. Simon's Medicated Aromatic Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating E R, currently 3 known, one example repaired. Would still be considered extemely rare under both book ratings.

Dr. Wonser's U. S. A. Indian Root Bitters 1969 rating E R, 1998 rating VR-R, currently the number of examples known would be considered rare and very scarce by both book ratings respectively.

Of course adding different criteria will of course change the ratings even more; such as color, but I thought the results were interesting to compare.

COLOR RUN !

From the Robert Frank collection
Thanks to ABA for the pic.












Dr. Wonser's U. S. A. Indian Root Bitters was first advertised in The Gilroy Advocate newspaper on June 25th, 1870, the advertisement ran for 3 mos in this paper. The manufactory and depot for this product was located at 645 Third St., San Francisco.

Wm. Hawkins displays seven dozen of his U. S. A. Indian Root Bitters at the San Francisco Fair on September 1st, 1870.

Hawkins placed a second advertisement (in a different style format) in the San Francisco Daily Examiner newspaper on December 17th, 1870, this ad ran for 1 month. The location of his manufactory and depot was now located at 418 Sacramento St., San Francisco.

W. M. Hawkins applied for the trademark name of his bitters on June 3rd, 1871, this was reported in the Sacramento Daily Union newspaper on June 5th. [see post of June 21, 2009 by Old Cutters for photocopies of the trademarked application].

Again Hawkins entered his Wonser's U. S. A. Indian Root Bitters in the 1871 State Fair and on September 25th, 1871 received a diploma award. Another advertisement appeared in the Wine Dealers Gazette, a monthly publication in the December 1871 issue. The advertisement stated

"This great remedy strikes at the root of every disease, which lies in the liver and the blood. They are not like the many poisonous compounds with which the country is flooded, under the name of Bitters, which are made of refined poison and gall, and seasoned up to suit the taste. They contain no alcohol, and their effects do not die out, but on the contrary are lasting and beneficial. For Piles, Constitpation, Chronic Coughs, Dyspepsia, Fever and Ague, Kidney, all Billious and Most Chronic Diseases".

Bryant's Bitters

Recently several Bryant's Stomach Bitters bottles were unearthed in a Sacramento privy. Although very exciting news for the bottle collecting world, it really shouldn't come as a surprise to a lot of advanced western diggers/collectors. The Bryant's bitters in both mould shapes was advertised in the Sacramento Daily Union newspaper as well as the San Francisco Alta California newspaper. Several examples in various conditions were found in both these cities as one would expect with the products advertising for use in such establishments as hotels and restaurants. Over the years diggers have found the cone style Bryants bottles in places such as North San Juan, Camptonville, Downieville, San Francisco, Sacramento, Ukiah, Saratoga, Mount Shasta area and Carson City, as well as back east in Connecticut. In one San Francisco auction company alone were 25 cases of this early Bryants Bitters being wholesaled in 1859. The early Bryant's bottles were packed 24 to a case, indicating that 600 of these bottles were sold by this auction house alone. As with a lot of other eastern products being shipped to a relatively young market out west it faced competition from other similar products being marketed at the same time, such as Roback's Stomach Bitters, Turner's Forest Wine Bitters, and Hostetter's Stomach Bitters, which were all advertised during this time.

With the number of shards found by diggers over the years, there should be enough to piece together several more of the cone style Bryant's Stomach Bitters for future collections.

photos courtesy of Jeff Wichmann and William Ham